Curse

Gorebrex · Sep 04, 2006, 12:24 PM // 12:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by aeroclown

Like i have said before and Like ill say again, most of the problems typically occur in route, its not specifically either end but typically a problem in route.

Routes are not always dynamic in most cases, Routes are very often statically assigned by your region and by your default gateway. The majority of which is determined at your c/o, If your Default gateway or dns changes so will your route. There are known network routes that always seem to have problems as has been illustrated before. I know that when my isp changes the default gateway to work on something and I'm routed through arpnet my connection works like crap, when they switch it back and i'm off arpnet things are normal.

If you are having problems the first place you can probably check is your default gateway. That is the default gateway assigned to your modem, if you have a router you will need to check the page that contains ip information for it, this should not be a private Class c address (192.xxx.xxx.xxx). Run something like pathchirp or run a ping with a packet count of atleast 50. If things are looking good from your modem to your isp assigned default gateway its a pretty good chance that the problem is outside the bounds of control for either arena net or your isp.

The sad part about that is that if that is the case there is little you or areana net can do about the issue beyond report it or send nastygrams to the offending network support lines.

While there may very well be other factors at play, with a thin client system, I am far more inclined to believe the issue is an external network issue then a localized system issue.

I would also like to add that utilities like PathChirp do you very little good if you don't know the route/destinations to check with the tools. As the syntax seems to indicate the need for both a send/originating ip address and a recieving/destination address. while i'm sure it is great for checking on bandwidth bottle necks you have to first find the Destinations you want to check.

Thats my 0.02
i apologize if my first post in this thread was a bit cold cut, but there are just a flood of threads on this issue and they are all the same and very often all remain unresolved because the Point of the problem extends outside the control of either party.

Listen to the clown! Hes right, and all these people saying "Fix it ANet!" Dont seem to understand that ANet doesnt control the pathway to your computer. If it was something in the coding, or if the servers needed an upgrade, they could fix that, but if the problem lies in the connection between your computer and the ANet servers, then theres not much they can do about it.
Forgot to add this in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gr3g

I love seeing people who have no clue about how the internet works saying big words like "traceroute" and "backbone". Here's a little experiment: try tracerouting to a bunch of different places on the internet such as google, amazon, guildwarsguru.com, etc. See how on many of them traceroute just stops working after a few lines? Go a dozen hops away on the internet and traceroute and the like stop being reliable. The packets are being dropped because of strange TTLs (which can indicate all sorts of things including internet attacks), not because no routes exist.

If you want to do serious end-to-end bandwidth and latency measurements, traceroute doesn't do it. Traceroute only (kinda sorta) shows the route. You don't care about the route, because you know that you can connect to GW. What you care about is bandwidth and latency. use a tool like pathChirp or netest. If you have lower end-to-end bandwidth to guildwarsguru.com than to GW's servers, then that there is your problem.

Of course knowing where the problem exists is only half the battle. If somewhere on the path between your computer and GW's servers some service provider is playing silly QoS games, you're basically SOL.

I DO care about the route, because the longer the route, the more travel time for signals to get from A to B.
I DID do those test(ANet, Guru, Google, like you said, and Amazon was the ONLY one that dropped out(after 25 hops). Heres pics of the others

These CLEARLY show that the problem is somwhere along the away, NOT at my end, and NOT at ANets end. Its in the pathing getting from my PC to ANet. Yes, knowing the latency spikes and bandwith is nice, but since its probably not something you can fix, all that tells you is exactly where the problem lies.

gr3g · Sep 04, 2006, 12:46 PM // 12:46

Sorry, aeroclown's message that you bolded is just a jumble of confusion. Firstly, DNS has nothing to do with this as the connections happen using ip numbers. Secondly, your "default gateway" is merely the first router you connect to. It is really unlikely that you can log in to GW if your link to the default gateway is broken, and if this link is problematic then you should contact your local ISP as it is their fault.

Once your packet is past this first router, the route it takes will have little to nothing to do with your initial gateway. Almost all of your packets will go through some local routers, then to a district level router, then to a city or state level, and finally end up on one of the backbones. The exact path it takes will be highly variable due to the large amount of redundancy at all levels of the route.

The suggestion to use pathChirp is of course correct, as I already mentioned before in this thread. Ping over a long enough time can also give an idea of how reliable the connection is, but not all service providers will route ICMP ECHO packets (which ping uses).

Mrscoombes · Sep 04, 2006, 02:20 PM // 14:20

I dont really get lag unless i'm playing music or downloading stuff.

Gorebrex · Sep 04, 2006, 03:38 PM // 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by gr3g

Sorry, aeroclown's message that you bolded is just a jumble of confusion. Firstly, DNS has nothing to do with this as the connections happen using ip numbers. Secondly, your "default gateway" is merely the first router you connect to. It is really unlikely that you can log in to GW if your link to the default gateway is broken, and if this link is problematic then you should contact your local ISP as it is their fault.

Once your packet is past this first router, the route it takes will have little to nothing to do with your initial gateway. Almost all of your packets will go through some local routers, then to a district level router, then to a city or state level, and finally end up on one of the backbones. The exact path it takes will be highly variable due to the large amount of redundancy at all levels of the route.

The suggestion to use pathChirp is of course correct, as I already mentioned before in this thread. Ping over a long enough time can also give an idea of how reliable the connection is, but not all service providers will route ICMP ECHO packets (which ping uses).

If by "jumble of comfusion", you meant, "If you are having problems the first place you can probably check is your default gateway. That is the default gateway assigned to your modem, if you have a router you will need to check the page that contains ip information for it, this should not be a private Class c address (192.xxx.xxx.xxx). Run something like pathchirp or run a ping with a packet count of atleast 50. If things are looking good from your modem to your isp assigned default gateway its a pretty good chance that the problem is outside the bounds of control for either arena net or your isp." I didnt find it confusing at all. The part I bolded there is the most important. If you can get to your ISP ok, but have trouble getting to ANet, then theres not much chance you can do anything about it, is what it says.

Eviance · Sep 04, 2006, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divinus Stella

What gets me is i can be in a team of 8 others, 4-5 people get error7 at EXACTLY the same time, anet tells all of us that out internet is at fault, but we are all on vent still talking.

Actually what was said was that it could be somewhere from OUR internet to THEIRS or when its on its way back. There is a huge route between myself and Anet and I am sure many others have an even longer distance. We have to pass through other carriers and servers before we hit Anet and come back.

I managed to get through the night without any err7s but I did experience a bit of lag -nothing ungodly tho, thankfully!

BeatWolf · Sep 04, 2006, 04:54 PM // 16:54

I get really bad time delays and freezing allways at the beggining of a fight, its really puts me of the game, i don't know if its my connection or what but it's getting to much. Other games dont seem to do this.

garethporlest18 · Sep 04, 2006, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Well sometimes it's Anet it seems. Massive lag outs like that one night on American servers in the deep. Sometimes my internet just lags, most likely because of my router and where it's going through. But the problem seems to be on the way to Anet. So what do we do about that?

O R L Y · Sep 04, 2006, 10:10 PM // 22:10

i havent had 007 in my 15 months of playing it must be your internet / location... i dont even have the gw port setting in

TheLordOfBlah · Sep 05, 2006, 12:50 AM // 00:50

Me and a friend of mine were questing while also on our vent server, and we would get MASSIVE lag spikes, but ventrillo was still working so it was obviously not our internet connections.

Yea, it needs to stop

TheProject · Sep 05, 2006, 01:55 AM // 01:55

I've only just now experienced the lag spikes. It would leave me with a 5 second delay between skills, something you cant deal with if you are trying to heal O_O

Curse You · Sep 05, 2006, 02:22 AM // 02:22

I wish people would stop saying "Anet, fix it!" because it is clearly NOT an issue on their side. How do I know?

I have 2 Computers. 1 is six months old, the other is three years old. The new one is on a Belkan Wireless Router and a rather new modem, I get no lag. The old one is on a D-Link Router (wired) and an old modem, I get lag.

Both the connections are on the same ISP, and so must go through the same paths to contact Anet servers.

Now, someone explain to me how it could be something wrong with the Anet servers? Wouldn't it make more sense if it was simply that my router is crap, or my computer is too old?

Maybe your Gw.dat files have all become currupted due to a faulty download that was streamed for a few hours? That would also explain my issue, as I updated the computers at different times.

blastm · Sep 05, 2006, 04:52 AM // 04:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

I wish people would stop saying "Anet, fix it!" because it is clearly NOT an issue on their side. How do I know?
(...) Maybe your Gw.dat files have all become currupted due to a faulty download that was streamed for a few hours? That would also explain my issue, as I updated the computers at different times.

so a bugged update wouldn't be their fault?

as for the theory of the fragmented .dat file, i would believe it if only those with a slow & old computer would have an issue... but even within my guild it doesn't matter if we got a old one or a brand-new one with a hi-spec sata-II HD.
so, unless Anet update the recommended hardware with a 15ktr/min U320SCSI HD, I won't search there, either.

The only thing I know for sure, it's that for more than a year-and-half, every time someone writed in a forum "hey, this game is laggy/bugged!" he was answered: "yeah, right, check your internet connexion/computer!"
now, and since they've moved their servers, it's more like "oh, you too?".
As their client, we just want from Anet to solve the problem, or at least acknowledge it, and not just answering "blame your ISP" when it may very well be their ISP who's at fault...

Curse You · Sep 05, 2006, 05:04 AM // 05:04

I meant to say this as well;

As online games progress, they add new content. As new content is added, what WAS the bare minimum specs, becomes below minimum.

So it doesn't matter if your computer meets the minimum on the Prophecies box, that was over a year ago, and so the game now needs something better.

Really though, what gamer (serious or not) has the bare minimum for Guild Wars? Sure that may be ok to run Word, or whatever, but if you want to play a modern game, you must upgrade eventually.

Arcador · Sep 05, 2006, 07:37 AM // 07:37

I got almost no lag in the past 2 weeks. 90% the issue is not i Anet, it is in the route.

Shanaeri Rynale · Sep 05, 2006, 07:54 AM // 07:54

Anyone who knows anything about the internet knows that at time it's unpredicatable, fast, or just downright cranky. It is not AN's job to fix the internet.

What it IS AN's responsibility is to make an application that can be robust enough to survive an unpredicatable, fast, or just downright cranky internet.

Lets liken the internet to a road(avoids the word superhighway). Like any road it has pot holes, bad surfaces in at random intervals along it. These are inevitable and cannot be avoided. The cars on the road are the applications, email, your browser etc etc.

Now who's responsibility is it to make sure a car does'nt fly off the road every time it hits a pot hole.

AN would says it's the roads responsibility to make sure there are no pot holes and that it's car has adequate suspension to cater for roads with no pot holes.

The Road would say, look AN we have thousands of other cars who go along the road and dont crash everytime they hit a big bump, you sort it out. You car is clearly not suited to travelling on the road.

Now both are extreme views, but since only minor things can be done about the road then AN need to make the car more robust.

Lengthen the timeouts for Err 7, keep the ports open, create a checkpoint file that keeps track of where you are etc etc. These are all tools used by 'other car makers' to keep their vehicles on the road.

Now GW server side is very,very stable most times it works well, but there is a fragility about it's network side that is well known.

To say it's all AN is wrong, but to say there's nothing AN can do about it is also incorrect.

isamu kurosawa · Sep 05, 2006, 08:08 AM // 08:08

The only time i get lag is when someone else on our network does some heavy banddwith action such as p2p, bittorrent use etc, when they don't i have no problems at all.

arcanemacabre · Sep 05, 2006, 08:21 AM // 08:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shanaeri Rynale

What it IS AN's responsibility is to make an application that can be robust enough to survive an unpredicatable, fast, or just downright cranky internet.

...

Lengthen the timeouts for Err 7, keep the ports open, create a checkpoint file that keeps track of where you are etc etc. These are all tools used by 'other car makers' to keep their vehicles on the road.

Now GW server side is very,very stable most times it works well, but there is a fragility about it's network side that is well known.

To say it's all AN is wrong, but to say there's nothing AN can do about it is also incorrect.

QFT - Your whole post is exceptional and is worded exactly as I would put it, if I could assemble my thoughts as well as you have.

For the record, my wife and I rarely if ever have lag issues. I think either of us have only err7'd twice. Once was an internal d/c issue on our end. The other time was definately Anet, because as soon as we went back into the game, everyone was asking "Did you just get dropped, too?" and "What happened?". That's how you can tell the servers just had a brain-fart.

Though I have seen my friend play on his laptop over wireless. Good lord wireless sucks for gaming. Thing is, we noticed of course that the game would err7 when the signal spike-dropped. The signal would go out for literally 2 seconds at most.

It's as if GW simply gives up the very second information stops coming. As you say, surely they could give a little more leeway in the code for lost packets. It's not entirely unheard of...

JiggyFly · Sep 05, 2006, 08:42 AM // 08:42

Quote:

Though I have seen my friend play on his laptop over wireless. Good lord wireless sucks for gaming. Thing is, we noticed of course that the game would err7 when the signal spike-dropped. The signal would go out for literally 2 seconds at most.

I had the same problem on my cable modem, it wasn't reaching my computer because of a weak signal from the outside of my house. And it took 5 tech support calls, 2 visits from their repairmen, and ultimately the head tech support guy from the entire county on a personal visit to get it fixed...mind you my cable provider is pack of morons, but still it's not there is a "No more lag" button you just hit to make it go away...although I know some people think there is.

Amity and Truth · Sep 05, 2006, 09:35 AM // 09:35

All the lag and delays wouldn't be so bad if A-Net would FINALLY implement reconnects like they've been promising since the game came out over a year ago.
Err7 IS an issue, besides what some Trolls in this Thread are claiming. Err7 is ultimately the failure of a mission for you. It forces you to redo stuff again and again. Your guild might lose that important GVG due to Err7. You might be one step away from your req 8 Crystalline Sword... etc etc. Err7 IS an issue.

But as with the auction house, A-Net obviously seems to fail in seeing the importance of this problem.

CorstedPirate · Sep 05, 2006, 09:58 AM // 09:58

Just a few days ago I was hanging out with guildies getting ready to help someone with Dunes. I suddenly had an error 007. I logged back in to find that 4 of us had dropped at the same time. I normally have all chat off but saw a chat bubble complaining about 007's. I turned all chat on to find that several people in the district had dropped all at the same time.

So, from what I am gathering some people here are saying that every single person that dropped in that case ran into the exact same router issue that had nothing to do with Anet? I am sure that that could not possibly be the case. From my guild alone there were 3 different time zones involved and we can't all have that similar of a route to drop at the exact same time.

I have been meaning to take care of some computer maintance for a couple weeks, we'll see if it even helps. Not that I have that big of a problem with lag anyways.